Comments on: Bizarro Zero Tolerance https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/ Thoughts on Politics and Life Tue, 24 Jan 2017 17:22:21 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.4.32 By: The Private intellectual. https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-667 Sun, 21 Aug 2005 18:08:00 +0000 http://annafiltest.wordpress.com/2005/08/12/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-667 Amusing to note, as I read this, that one of the adverts on your Blog was for a free bankruptcy quote site …

]]>
By: Ken Grandlund https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-666 Tue, 16 Aug 2005 06:58:00 +0000 http://annafiltest.wordpress.com/2005/08/12/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-666 (responses)

Orikinla- Many thanks. Please feel free to spread these thoughts to anyone you want to, including your local paper. The main problem there is that they often limit op-ed or reader letters to a certain number of words, which as you can see is not upper most in my essays. I like the ability to get all the thoughts out without having to edit for space. Send people to Common Sense, put up a Common Sense button on your site, print out a bumper sticker (both links are on the right column) and help spread the word that Common Sense is not dead.

Hope to hear from you again.

Windspike- I almost titled this post Zero Tolerance for Zero Tolerance, but settled on an homage to Bizarro instead. And your second thought is indeed salient here.

Settling for middle ground only plants the seeds of failure. THere are plenty of people who willreach middle ground and peak on their own abilities, but to make middle ground the high point is to keep all others from reaching their potential.

Similarly, punishing all offenses the same reduces the effectiveness of all punishments. If the penalty for throwing a pencil at another student is suspension and the penalty for punching another student in the face is also suspension, why not go for broke? (no pun intended.)

Zero Tolerance is a failed theory in that it doesn’t prevent or reduce through constructive efforts, only reacts to a problem that has gotten out of control. Blanket Zero Tolerance is zero Common Sense.

Gerat comments as always.

]]>
By: windspike https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-665 Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:48:00 +0000 http://annafiltest.wordpress.com/2005/08/12/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-665 Ken,

My first thought about your post resonated in a philosophical way. Can we have Zero Tolerance for Zero Tolerance?

My second thought was an old saying, but nonetheless salient for this discourse here: “There is nothing more unequal than the equal treatment of unequals.”

This statment is not a justification for negative discrimination, but pushes us to think beyond PC terms and ask the question, what should we do, for example, in schools that mandate the curriculum and testing that pushes to mediocrity rather than excellence among and between individuals?

When blanket policy decisions are made and laws put on the books that force individual discretion out of the equation, yes, you do get uniformity and remove subjectivity. But, then you get isomorphism – a gravitation toward the middle. And if middle is really the goal, a community settles for mediocraty not excellence we see the ramifications permeate all of society.

Society should set the bar higher.

]]>
By: Orikinla Osinachi. https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-664 Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:44:00 +0000 http://annafiltest.wordpress.com/2005/08/12/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-664 This is a brilliant essay that deserves a wider audience.

You should publish it in the newspapers.

]]>
By: Ken Grandlund https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-663 Sun, 14 Aug 2005 06:27:00 +0000 http://annafiltest.wordpress.com/2005/08/12/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-663 (responses)

Jolly- As always, good of you to chime in. I can agree with mandatory sentencing for the most heinous crimes (murder, rape, torture) but agree that there should be more discretion among judges and their cases.

And our abysmal prison demographics have more to do with ridiculous laws, like the war on drugs, than with keeping the country crime free. I’ve talked a bit about legal reform early in this blog-with posts between 1-18-05 and 2-3-05, if you’d care to take a look.

Angel- Yes, it has gone too far. It’s high time to throw these silly rules out and throw out any of their adherents as well. What happened to using one’s brains? Glad you left a thought.

Rudicus- You bring up some points I’d not thought about. Naturally, these nonsense zero tolerance policies can be used as tools for discrimination or just to get rid of so-called undesirables. But what is this? The feudal system?

And yes, the society of law suit mania does encourage a zero tolerance mentality, coupled with a blameless society.

Absolutism may work fine in a box with few if any fluctuating parameters, but in the real world, very little is black and white, except of course, black and white.

Think for yourselves folks, and suddenly zero tolerance policies become unnecessary. Great comments, Rudicus.

KWW- Yes, and subjugation too! As for the Rove issue, as with any “concrete” policy, Zero Tolerance isn’t applied consistently, which is another reason for it to go.
Glad you dropped by.

Jessica- Thanks for the great compliment.

I think the Rove analogy was meant as an example of the hypocrisy of policies like Zero Tolerance and the political parties exemplify the attitude with their divisive tactics. But as you say, maybe that’s another post.

Our world is going topsy-turvy these days, and lies and upside down policies are just more fuel on the fire. Until average citizens join hands and say “Enough” we will continue to lose more and more of our autonomy.

Hope to hear from you again.

Web_Loafer- Glad to hear that the cop used some Common Sense. Also, glad you dodn’t get dinged too badly. Speed limits are perfect examples of “soft” zero tolerance policies. How often have you seen a police cruiser speeding down the road, NOT headed for an emergency? Sporadic enforcement lends to the view of a corrupt bureaucracy, an unfair system, causing more to try to break the rule. Some rules are in place for reasons of control or renumeration, and not for public safety.

I think that freeway speed limits should follow The Basic Rule and be more flexible depending on factors like weather and trafic flow. I speed…we all do from time to time. It’s a matter of knowing what the roads can handle and what you can handle too.

Thanks for the great compliment. Hope to hear from you again.

Pol Pie- I’ve already advocated the legalization of drugs in an essay on 2-8 called “Ending the War on Drugs.” Check it out.

My main problem with the libertarian movement is their over reliance on capitalism as a solution to everything. But I am in line with their attitudes about freedom and limited government.

Thanks for the comment.

]]>
By: politicalpie https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-662 Sun, 14 Aug 2005 01:41:00 +0000 http://annafiltest.wordpress.com/2005/08/12/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-662 legalize drugs. You should look at the Libertarian party. They believe in legalizing drugs. I do not do them but I do not think the government should tell me what I can and cannot use and the government should not tell someone what they can and cannot sell.

Research the Libertarian reform movement, it is interesting.

]]>
By: web_loafer https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-661 Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:08:00 +0000 http://annafiltest.wordpress.com/2005/08/12/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-661 This is not a flippant reply Ken, I read and enjoyed and agreed with much of what you wrote.
I was a victim of zero tolerance a few days ago. While driving my 18 wheeler through a very dangerous stretch of highway (which I drive through 4 times each work day) I was pulled over by a policeman, for speeding. In reality I was trying my best to drive safe and so I was keeping up with the 4 wheeler traffic. That is the safest way to drive in the city with a 40 ton truck and trailer. The posted speed limit was 45 miles per hour, but the traffic was moving at 60 miles an hour. If I had applied brakes to slow down to 45, it would have been unsafe (for the small 4 wheelers, not my truck) so I drove with the flow. The policeman who pulled me over was a MDOT (Missouri Department of Transportation) officer who only watches and tickets trucks that are speeding or appear to be unsafe.
I was angry, very angry. I have a 20+ year safe driving record, not a accident, none. That is millions of miles we are talking about. I tried to explain to the officer that I was doing what a safe truck driver does. I told him honestly that I couldn’t afford a ticket for safe driving.
He had his job to do also, and he wrote me a ticket for 61 in a 45 zone. We are talking big big fine now. It was posted as a work zone, so the minimum fine was posted to be $250. There would have been a extra fine for being more than 15 miles over posted speed. I was expecting a $500 fine.
The officer told me he had no choice he had to ticket me.
Somehow the officer brushed aside zero tolerance and when I got the ticket mailed to me, it was for $90. He bent the rules a little for me, but he had his job, I had mine. I am certain that the officer sent the ticket in as 5 or 6 miles per hour over the posted speed.
Some of the stories I have heard about school children being called out for zero tolerance are pathetic. At the same time the school administraters cannot stop smoking in the boy’s room…….go figure.
So Ken, I follow your reasoning, and look forward to more civil discussions you have with us.
Your blog is a quiet reasonable place, I know you can’t control the comments, but you Ken are a quiet blogger who rocks.

]]>
By: JB https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-660 Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:54:00 +0000 http://annafiltest.wordpress.com/2005/08/12/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-660 Before I comment about Ken’s post let me say that I am still amazed that someone managed to actually take a shot at Karl Rove. I mean HELLO what does Karl Rove have to do with this conversation? Save the crap for another post eh?

Now to the topic at hand, zero tolerance never works. Life is not black and white, there are many gray areas. Zero tolerance never works. In our public schools, Zero tolerance is in fact a way for school administrators to avoid having to make actual decisions, which involve THOUGHT and LOGIC. I nthe case of the airport security, don’t get me started. I have zero respect for those yahoos. When they start profiling instead of targeting old ladies in wheelchairs and mothers of six small children, then we’ll talk.

Go Ken, you rock, you are my voice of reason!!!

Jess

]]>
By: Kitchen Window Woman https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-659 Fri, 12 Aug 2005 17:55:00 +0000 http://annafiltest.wordpress.com/2005/08/12/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-659 The zero tolerance policies depend upon those who relish enforcement and punishment.

The school incidents should be decided by educators who have some knowledge of children and viewed in relation to the circumstances. It should be left to the judgement of the staff not carved in granite somewhere else entirely.

If we insist on zero tolerance why is Karl Rove still employed by the president? His lies have endangered people and caused harm. How about zero tolerance for treason? That would make more sense than a plastic knife in a lunch bag or an inhaler.

]]>
By: Rudicus https://commonsenseworld.com/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-658 Fri, 12 Aug 2005 17:09:00 +0000 http://annafiltest.wordpress.com/2005/08/12/bizarro-zero-tolerance/#comment-658 I agree with the intolerance of Zero Tolerance and everything you’ve said. I like to ad two things to the discussion. The first being that having a zero tolerance policy for things – especially in schools allows teachers and administrators to weed people out for the most inane reasons – especially kids who may bring down scores or threaten the no child left behind funding scheme. This also goes hand in hand with the litigious society problem where zero tolerance rose out of “outrage” and “lawsuits” that immediately follow almost anything that happens. A kid brings Advil or a butter knife to school – someone can sue for security. A teacher disciplines a student or gives them a grade appropriate to their work and the kid sues for abuse and or descrimination. And if the parent tries to discipline the kids at home, then they get sued for abuse or the kids try to become emancipated. This is a direct result of not having any form of common sense in schools, society or the legal system. This problem is a direct result of the #2 problem of zero tolerance, which is Absolutism vs. Relativism.

Absolutism which is also what is causing so many problems in religion has spilled over into the world – so all our policies are one size fits all black and white policies. Eventhe Pope has said that relativism is the greatest threat to the world.

I say it is just the opposite. Absolutism is easier, but it is rarely appropriate and leads to wholescale societal challenges.

When you approach everything from the middle or the lowest common denominator all you end up doing is wedging out everyone on either end, which then leads to extremism and disaffection.

Nowhere can absolutism vs. relativism been seen in greater light than the 2004 presdidential election. Bush is an absolutist, kerry is a relativist. Absolutists make easy to digest comments and have a fixed unflexible answer for everything. Relativists handle each issue differently and change as the information changes – to absolutists, that’s known as flip flopping.

Look no further than Iraq for an illustration of what happens when you try to apply absolutism – you get a quagmire of unrealism.

So remember, next time someone asks you what to do, be a relativist and say “it depends”

Zero Tolerance is for people who can’t be bothered to think.

]]>